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posted by: DragonBait22 (reply) post date: 01.24.04 (1:33 pm) You seem so convinced that what you are saying and what you read in the Bible is THE one and only ultimate truth. How do you know that this is the truth? Furthermore, how can you claim superiority in your beliefs when you don't fully know the beliefs of those who disagree with yours? You say that the best way to find the truth is to open yourself up to God's word. Your truth is not questioned based on an intention to spread lies, but in assuming your way is right and better when there is no concrete evidence of this. According to your truth, "All of these people were created by God." But what evidence do you have supporting this claim? posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 01.24.04 (2:36 pm) I wasn't talking about lies as "other religions." I'm talking about the person's lie that posted a comment on a blog a few days prior to this one. I don't judge anyone who has opposing believes from me. As I am reaching salvation, I do the Lord's work and plant seeds. If you don't know about this, read the Parable of the Sower in the Book of the Gospel According to Matthew Chapter 13. In a Gospel, one of the Disciples of the Savior asked if he should teach what he has learned. He told His disciple to teach it to those that desire to know. So, I spread God's truth and plant seeds to those that desire to know, following Christ. I'm not going to go out and capture a group of Hindus and force them a seed. That's like taking a seed and commanding it to grow. It's something that only God can cause to happen. No one can be forced to love God. That isn't what God wants. I freely love Him and I freely put my life in His hands. And I claim no superiority in anything. I am but a servant of God. The least that is in heaven is greather than I am. These aren't 'beliefs.' They are truths. They are true whether someone believes in them or not. If I didn't believe in them, it would still apply to me and everyone else. I'm simply a steward of the truth - one that has been given knowledge of it and wishes to see others come to that knowledge. Whether I'm following a religion or not, this is what is true. The Jehovahs Witnesses believe that God doesn't want us to have blood transfusions because the blood is sacred. And this isn't the truth. God says not to eat blood (Genesis Ch. 3, Vs. 3-4, Leviticus Ch. 17, V. 13-14). Because it is not righteous to do so. Drinking blood gives rise to something evil, like strangling a baby goat (seething a kid in its mother's milk). It's wrong and God abhors it (Acts Chapter 15 Vs. 28-29, and Chapter 21 Verse 25). It isn't pure. Now, does it make the Jehovah's Witnesses any less in God's eyes? Am I to hate them for not acknowledging that God actually says not eating blood and that it's okay to have blood transfusions? Am I to change them in any way? That's not up to me. I am but a servant of God. I don't judge them. Neither do I hold contempt for them. And it doesn't make them any less my brethren as they are children of the Lord. And I say to you, everyone was created by God. It is a truth. I have come to know it. But many others of my brethren and sisters haven't yet. But He still loves them and so should I. I make no assumptions that my way is right because they are not my ways. They are the ways of God. I'm just one that has come to know and follow them. And what I have made are not assumptions, they are truth. If one knows lies and one knows the truth against those lies, how can one continue to follow the lies? He'd be a fool. And there is evidence. I have seen it. I'm still ignorant on many, many things, but I have seen it. And it is indeed evidence. But no one can come to see the evidence without the Holy Spirit. When Jesus was here on earth, He healed the blind. And without His Holy Spirit, one is blind to that evidence. No one can say "there is no God" by the Holy Spirit. So one cannot come to know the truth and be double-minded. You mustn't have any doubts. But don't come to me for the truth. I'm but a servant of God. I am a man. And, bound by this flesh, I am susceptible to lies and to lie myself. Go to God for the truth. He will neither tell you lies nor mislead you. Neither is He bound by lies, as He is the Highest. Ask God for the truth without doubt and He will show you this evidence. posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 01.24.04 (2:37 pm) Reply to: DragonBait22 I'm sorry. I didn't realize that my reply was so long. posted by: DragonBait22 (reply) post date: 01.24.04 (6:45 pm) Reply to: Isaac ..."the person's lie that posted a comment on a blog..." What exactly was his lie? "I don't judge anyone who has opposing believes from me." You stated that the person leaving a comment was a deceptor, accusing him of spreading lies. If that's not judgment, I don't know what is. What you see as lies (i.e., God does not exist) are merely differing views from your own. You cannot prove that God does exist, so how is it any more of a lie to say that He exists than to say He doesn't? "And I claim no superiority in anything." You claim that your way is THE truth, meaning all others are wrong. That's not claiming superiority? "These aren't 'beliefs.' They are truths." Prove it, please! In regard to the Jehovah's Witnesses, you do judge them simply by saying they are wrong in their ways (or that you are right in your's that vary from theirs). "And I say to you, everyone was created by God. It is a truth. I have come to know it." Again, why don't you enlighten us all and prove this? "I make no assumptions that my way is right because they are not my ways. They are the ways of God. I'm just one that has come to know and follow them. And what I have made are not assumptions, they are truth." If you can't prove it, as I'm making the wild assumption that you can't, you cannot maintain that it is the truth, without a doubt. There must be some evidence as to how these statements you make are true, otherwise they are just based in faith. Faith is counter to logic; it is irrational to base assumptions, or 'truth,' in faith- truth cannot be found in faith. "And there is evidence." So what is this evidence?? "But no one can come to see the evidence without the Holy Spirit." Ah, I see. First I have to acknowledge the presence of the Holy Spirit and then I will be presented with evidence of its existence. Now that's logical! "Ask God for the truth without doubt and He will show you this evidence." Yeah, if you ask for the truth regarding anything and naively take the evidence on faith, without doubting or questioning it, of course you will see the evidence. If I were to ask you to refrain from doubting what I tell you regarding the existence of a purple unicorn that flies through the sky, dropping stars out of a magical bag he carries, and you accept that 'evidence' while someone else remains skeptical of this story, which of you would be the fool? Unless there are rational, logical explanations for something, it is foolish to believe in it. posted by: therealspartacus007 (reply) post date: 01.24.04 (9:45 pm) I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're talking about me. I'm always open to people critiquing my thought process. I honestly think the things I wrote- they are not lies, but are possible mistakes. If you can show me why I should think that the Bible is true (any interpetation of it) than please do so. Otherwise don't make all these posts using the same repeated metaphor telling me I'm a fool. posted by: therealspartacus007 (reply) post date: 01.24.04 (9:47 pm) Oh yea, BTW, did you read my blog post responding to you? http://therealspartacus007.tblog.com posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 01.25.04 (10:53 am) "You stated that the person leaving a comment was a deceptor, accusing him of spreading lies. If that's not judgment, I don't know what is. What you see as lies (i.e., God does not exist) are merely differing views from your own. You cannot prove that God does exist, so how is it any more of a lie to say that He exists than to say He doesn't?" If someone tells me that they are Hindu and they believe in the god Vishnu, I'm not going to judge them. I'll talk to them and I'll learn some new things and tell them some new things, maybe plant a seed, and we'd laugh and still be neighbourly together. But when someone comes to me and tells me that there is no God and that that is the truth, that goes past being neighbourly. That's an attack. I'm not going to turn around and tell that gentle Hindu that Vishnu doesn't exist. There's a tremendous difference. It doesn't matter what my views are, but that what the liar had said opposes the truth. "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." I do not judge him, I let the Father judge him. These words were from the Father's words. First Epistle of John Chapter 2, Verse 22. "You claim that your way is THE truth, meaning all others are wrong. That's not claiming superiority?" No. It's not me that's claiming superiority in anything. I'm but a lowly servant of God and I'm next to nothing compared to what Christ is, but God still loves me. I'm equally a child in His eyes. I don't say that all others are wrong. What I do say is that that's not up to me to decide. God is the judge because He created it all, and He says that throughout His words. And I never said that all things were wrong. I don't know all things, as God does. So shouldn't He be the judge? I go by and trust what He says and I shew all things to the Father that He judges them. A mormon friend of mine gave me the Book of Mormon. I prayed to the Father and asked Him if He'd tell me whether it is His truth or not. "Prove it, please!" There's plenty of proof! "In regard to the Jehovah's Witnesses, you do judge them simply by saying they are wrong in their ways (or that you are right in your's that vary from theirs)." The Jehovahs Witness are a group of people. I don't judge them, just as I don't judge anyone else that God loves. We're siblings! What I'm saying is that they believe that God says that blood transfusions are wrong, when God says that eating blood is wrong and blood transfusions would be acceptable because it is doing good in His eyes. I was using it to illustrate that there is a difference between belief and truth. These things are true whether someone believes in them or not. There is a distinction between what we have in our mind and what God has created. "Again, why don't you enlighten us all and prove this?" I'm telling you, that I have no power on my own. I'm a man of God. I'm telling you that you must get the proof the way I have received it. From God. Pray to Him without any doubts (that is to say without having double-mindedness) and He will answer anything you ask of Him. "If you can't prove it, as I'm making the wild assumption that you can't, you cannot maintain that it is the truth, without a doubt." It is the truth whether I maintain anything or not. If I weren't alive, it would be true. What I'm saying is that the words of God and all things pertaining to His kingdom of Heaven would exist and be true without me. There is a purpose as to why it is ambiguous. And why He has made it so that you must have faith to come to salvation. It isn't a specific part that I can just describe generally. It ties into and has a lot to deal with the coming resurrection by Christ and sin coming into this world and Christ and why God didn't just start over after the first man and woman brought sin upon themselves. It has to do with the whole picture. I could sit down and type everything out, but I'd be making thousands of references to the words of God and, if you weren't reading with understanding by His Holy Spirit, you wouldn't understand any of it. It's apart of the mysteries of the kingdom of God. Who says truth cannot be found in faith? Did man say that? Be careful, friend. Careful lest you be deceived. Do you know what faith is? "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." The Epistle to the Hebrews Chapter 11, Verse 1. Faith is evidence within itself, a substance of hope. Verse 3, "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." Verse 6, "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." The whole of the book is on Faith. Go through The Epistle to the Hebrews Chapter 11. Everything that every individual that God came to in the Bible did what they did in faith. Moses, as an example, "By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's dauther; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward." Verses 24 to 26. But then it goes to say in Verse 27, "By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible." God reveals Himself to those that have faith in Him. Faith is a substance, it isn't blind. And if you go to any part of the Bible talking about anyone you will see that they did their works in faith. Now, I can't prove anything on my own. But God can. God is who you should receive your answer from if you want to know. Pray to Him and allow Him to show you by the Holy Spirit. This is how I came to see. This is how He revealed His truths to me. It is not within comprehension without the Spirit (Book of Psalms Chapter 139, Verse 6). Take your questions to God and ask without being double-minded and He will answer. He always answers. You cannot come to know the evidence, which are the mysteries of His kingdom, on your own (the Book of Isaiah Chapter 40, Verse 28, and Epistle to the Romans Chapter 11, Verse 33). God purposefully hid these things (First Epistle to the Corinthians Chapter 2, Verses 6 & 7) and those that trust Him and desire to know will know. Take this into consideration: The First Epistle to the Corinthians Chapter 2, Verse 5: "And my speech any my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:" Verse 6: "That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." That was Paul. God may use His servants to do His will, but God reveals the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. So it is by Him that you should receive your evidence. So I can tell you all of these wonderous things, but you wont come to understand any of them until you understand through His Spirit. And in the end, we will be in the spirit and those that He judges righteous will be in a spiritual body, as He is, able to witness the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven. You mentioned me quoting that God created everything earlier on. "The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens." "By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew. " The Book of Proverbs Chapter 3, Verses 19 and 20. He knows the number of stars and calls them all by name (Book of Psalms Chapter 147, Verse 4). His Understanding is infinite (Verse 5). By knowledge, wisdom, and understanding God created all. He created what man has studied for years and still doesn't fully understand. He has knowledge of all biology, all physics, all what we call natural laws. "So what is this evidence??" First Epistle to the Corinthians Chapter 2, Verse 7: "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:" The evidence is hidden wisdom. It is hidden in mysteries, which God reveals to those that ask of it by His Holy Spirit through His words. What are His reasons for hiding the wisdom in mysteries? As stated above, it is beyond the comprehension of the flesh and we can only comprehend by His Holy Spirit, and after the day of atonement the righteous, those that desire to know, will be in a spiritual body able to withstand witnessing these mysteries. Because the spirit and the flesh oppose one another. Also in the Book of the Gospel According to Matthew Chapter 7, Verse 6, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Why would God give His mysteries to those that were influenced by the tempter, satan? Parable of the sower! Also, it is important to consider who He gives them to. To those that desire to know. In the Book of the Gospel According to Matthew Chapter 7, Verse 7, Jesus says, "Ask and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." He goes further on to explain that everyone that desires to know will know, Verses 9 & 10: "Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?" And then on in Verses 13 and 14 He describes those that seek the mysteries: "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." "Ah, I see. First I have to acknowledge the presence of the Holy Spirit and then I will be presented with evidence of its existence. Now that's logical!" You not have to acknowledge His presence, you must know in every part of who you are and have no doubt in your mind. "Yeah, if you ask for the truth regarding anything and naively take the evidence on faith, without doubting or questioning it, of course you will see the evidence." Questioning has lead me to desire to know. Why else would one desire to know? The doubting in question is doubting His existance of doubting what He says is truth, not trusting in Him. The Book of Proverbs Chapter 22, Verse 17, "That thy trust may be in the LORD, I have made known to thee this day, even to thee." When a fool says in his heart "there is no God," how can a fool come to accept the mysteries that have been hidden? If you were given the mysteries of the kingdom of God without trusting Him, what good would it be to you? When God revealed the mysteries that I know today it was because I asked questions. I trusted in Him that what He had taught me was true and wanted to find out more. Book of Proverbs Chapter 14, Verse 26, "In the fear of the LORD is strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge." Verse 27, "The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death." In order not to doubt, you must trust in God, have a fear of the Lord, because: "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." The Book of Proverbs Chapter 1, Verse 7. I took it upon myself to understand that and read with understanding Proverbs before I came to begin knowing His mysteries. Ch. 9 Verse 10: "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." Sorry, my mum chased me off to bed midway past half this comment. "Unless there are rational, logical explanations for something, it is foolish to believe in it." You say 'believe' at the end of your sentence, but do you know what that means? That is the mental act of placing trust! Moses. David. Paul. Solomon. Joseph. Noah. Do you think that when God came to them that they were surprised to see that God was real? They already knew through faith! There weren't any doubts in their mind that said that "there is no God." God reads the mind. God knows what's in our hearts, on our minds. He knows the number of the very hairs of our head. And there are explanations for everything in God's words, which are part of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 01.25.04 (10:54 am) Reply to: therealspartacus007 I haven't. posted by: DragonBait22 (reply) post date: 01.25.04 (2:31 pm) Reply to: Isaac Do me a favor, just as an exercise in rational thought. Prove to me, or give me evidence or reasons for God's existence WITHOUT quoting from or referring to the Bible. To an atheist, the Bible is merely a book of fiction with some pretty good stories and morals and poetry. It does not provide for a very convincing argument of God's existence because it is only factually valid if God exists. I was raised Christian, went to church from age 3-9 or so, was baptized and everything. I believed in God, I had the desire to know of God's existence. It is precisely because of my desire to know the truth that I began questioning what was being taught to me and came up with more questions than there were reasonable answers for. It is not because I lacked the will or desire to 'know' God, but because I lacked the evidence. I doubt that anyone, such as myself or Spartacus, who tries to make you see the irrationality of taking everything on faith is trying to take your faith away from you. I am only trying to promote a sense of logic. If your faith makes you happy, good for you. My contention is that it is rooted in a falsity, but my opinion doesn't really matter, as long as you can understand, through logic, what it is that you believe. posted by: therealspartacus007 (reply) post date: 01.25.04 (8:48 pm) So, what all these big long posts boil down to is that if I pray to God hoping that He exists and believing that He will give me a euphoric feeling in answer to my prayer, then, upon the brink of what I believe will be the most important, wonderful moment of my life, I feel a sense of euphoria, and that proves that God exists. Why the argument? posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 01.29.04 (4:46 pm) http://www.entourages.com/barbs/RevBob.htm posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 06.19.06 (4:07 am) Reply to: therealspartacus007 God isn't looking for someone who will believe that He exists. God isn't looking for someone who is praying to someone they don't believe is there. God says He resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. So if I'm double-minded (doubt), He doesn't answer my prayers, or regard them. He actually resists them. God says even the demons *believe*, and shudder. He isn't looking for an intellectual acknowledgement of His existance. He's looking for the man that will see that he's worthy of death, has no goodness of his own, and come to the Lord broken and put his trust in Him for salvation. That's the believe - trust in God and depend on God for everything. A complete surrender of life and will. Because the just shall live by faith. If you're going to be declared legally innocent come judgement day by God, and be 'just,' you'd live like what the Lord was telling you is true. He's given a promise and He's asked that you trust him. He says you're filthy dirty in His sight because of sin and need cleaning, that there's a second death that you'll face if judged guilty. That if you've told a lie, stolen, looked at a woman with lust (adultery), hated someone (murder), then you'd be judged as a lying, thieving, adulterer and murderer at heart, and have no hope in His court (the 10 commandments), and the only way out is to trust Him. For innocence -righteousness. So the answer to your post is no. And that's why there's an arguement. Cheers, mate, Isaac D. posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 06.19.06 (4:19 am) Reply to: DragonBait22 Sure. How do you know that I'm a real person? My words on screen are proof that I exist. How do you know that there's a company called Dell? The fact that your computer is there and you can see it and use it, is proof that the computer maker exists. Same with a tree. A Seed Sower is proved to exist because the apple tree is visible. Same with creation. The creation is proof that there's a creator. And you're going to gripe and seem offended by that last sentence. But, this simplistic statement is accurate and faultless, if you think on it! You walk on the ground. You walk through the field. You found two things, a rock and a watch. You look at the ticking hand of this pocket watch, and you know instantly that it's more complexly designed than that rock. You know to look for the owner of that stopwatch rather than to look for the owner of that rock. Think again: You walk down a beach. You see some markings in the sand. You see ripples. You know instantly that the water washed ashore and made the ripples in that beach. But, if you see "Mary heart Johnny" in a heart pattern, then you know immediately that there was some intelligence to that information and it wasn't done by the water. To think it was done by accident would be foolish... Agree? So because we're here, and we have 137 million light sensitive cells in our eyes, and this Darwin that you may believe in I don't know, says in Origin of Species, to say that the eye came by natural selection would be foolish, and since it makes 100,000 adjustments a day, you'd be foolish to think that this creation isn't a deliberate design, and no accident. The next step is to say, Hey, if there's a creator, I have to know who this guy is! And God's promised that God would reveal Himself, if that were in their heart. But the bible clearly says, "No one is righteous, no not one. There is none that seeks after God." There's no one that asks who this creator is. No african man in some village, or an indian man in some town. They gladly choose to create their own god rather than find out who the truest One is and this comes directly from the 'righteous' part - there's no good person alive, not even one. Sin blinds. If you've ever told a lie, just one, you're a liar in God's sight. If you've ever stolen (even if it's a homework answer), that makes you a thief. If you've ever even looked at a woman, God says you're an adulterer already. All you have to do is hate someone or call them a name to murder them, He states so clearly. This is why God doesn't reveal Himself to you - because if He did, you'd instantly die and be brought to justice, because of your sin. The soul that sins, it shall die, and if you don't have the sacrifice of perfect righteousness to offer to God come judgement day, the price for your own sins will be your own death in hell. That's not God's will. He wants you to repent and put your trust in Jesus, so that you wont perish come the day of wrath, when all of your thoughts and feelings and ideas and sins will be revealed for everyone to see. |
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