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posted by: LadyG (reply) post date: 09.17.08 (8:13 pm) Congratulations and Amen. posted by: PastorDave (reply) post date: 09.28.08 (5:46 pm) Let me see if I understand your reason for becoming an American citizen. It is not because you love The United State Of America and you are proud to stand and be known as a citizen of this great nation. It is not because you have found a place that celebrates and encourages your freedom and God-given right to be all you can be. It is because you want to avail yourself of the financial, educational, and career benefit given to citizens of this country. Surely they have medical schools where you are from? I'm pretty sure the oath of citizenship includes a renouncement of allegiance to other nations. Did you mean it? Was it a commitment of your heart? If necessity called for it, would you be willing to die for this country? To me, that is the essence of citizenship. You should love America if you are to be a citizen. Maybe I simply missed something with this matter. I'd like to know. posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 10.04.08 (10:45 pm) It's because I'm called of God to serve in Medical Missions. And have no affection within myself for financial benefit. My allegiance is to the Kingdom of God. To no earthly kingdom. I could easily make the oath. My allegiance is to Jesus Christ, no earthly King. I made the oath. My patriotism and my love for any worldly thing bows down to Christ. I love America. But I love the Kingdom of God much, much more. To be patriotic without acknowledging my subserviance to a greater kingdom is to put something before God. My allegiance to any earthly kingdom only follows me to the pearly gates. It ends there and cannot pass through. I'm first an ambassador for Christ than a citizen of even my former nation. And I have dual citizenship. posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 10.04.08 (10:45 pm) Reply to: PastorDave It's because I'm called of God to serve in Medical Missions. And have no affection within myself for financial benefit. My allegiance is to the Kingdom of God. To no earthly kingdom. I could easily make the oath. My allegiance is to Jesus Christ, no earthly King. I made the oath. My patriotism and my love for any worldly thing bows down to Christ. I love America. But I love the Kingdom of God much, much more. To be patriotic without acknowledging my subserviance to a greater kingdom is to put something before God. My allegiance to any earthly kingdom only follows me to the pearly gates. It ends there and cannot pass through. I'm first an ambassador for Christ than a citizen of even my former nation. And I have dual citizenship. posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 10.04.08 (11:06 pm) Reply to: PastorDave I have a scripture: Mt 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. I wouldn't have put myself under an oath if I was opposed to the country that's hosted me these past 17 years. It's that if I put any earthly relationship on par with my relationship with Christ, then this verse applies to me - I'm not worthy of Him. It's funny how the Faith spreads fast in countries where the Brethren are being persecuted for believing. Even being citizen of a nation that allows me to practice the Faith freely - even this affection/loyalty is to be put below Christ. Otherwise I'm not just pledging allegiance to the flag, I'm praying to it. What do you think, Pastor Dave? posted by: PastorDave (reply) post date: 10.06.08 (6:42 am) Reply to: Isaac Here is what I found to be hurtful to me as an American citizen: "I've been in this country for 17 years. Never liked it and always wanted to leave." This leaves the impression that you are simply using the process of American citizenship to further another goal, that you are going through the motions so you can best further your education. Never liked it? "I never wanted to become citizen. In fact, I went to the ceremony alone. Not because I'm ashamed, but that official citizenship for me is just one small step in the call of God on me to getting into medical school." Just a means to an end? I guess America is a good place to pursue higher education. But, you can do such and yet remain a citizen of your native country. Are there plans to change your citizenship once again, after you've used America to obtain your education? I have no problem with your theology. As a Christian, my ultimate allegiance is to Christ. I believe in civil disobedience when one is forced to choose between country and God. I just have a problem with the using of another person for selfish gain, and especially when one is not honest about such. Thanks for taking the time to interact and seek to make things more clear. I wish for you the best. posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 10.06.08 (8:44 pm) Reply to: PastorDave God's calling me to missions. I don't care about higher education. I don't care about money. It's bringing the Gospel to the ends of the earth. No one can blame me for this - this is the call of God. If I'm going to do missions, my heart is going to be for a people that don't have a clue what America is like. They simply need to hear the Gospel. I make no apologies for seeing citizenship as a means to this end. My whole life is a means to God's end. It is no longer I who live, but Christ in me. My youth I freely spend on God's will. Even more my citizenship. If spending my life on medical missions serving Christ is 'selfish gain' then yes, I'm 'using' my status as an American citizen for just that. Paul used his status as a Roman citizen for the furtherance of the Gospel, so why should I feel any differently? I'm nothing. I cannot boast. But. I've given up all of my rights for this call. I could have started a family ages ago, but the Lord told me not to because He's calling me to medicine. I wanted marry a few years ago. The Lord said no. I wanted to move out of my mother's house. I can't because I have to be able to take out less student loans to have more medical school loans. I've literally given up every hope and dream for God's call. I didn't want to do medicine, I wanted to do business, selling software. GOD is calling me to the medical missionfield. There is nothing to gain. "This leaves the impression that you are simply using the process of American citizenship to further another goal" You bet - I praise that through this citizenship, many will be won to Christ's name because I'd be allowed to travel to a Caribbean medical school. Without it, it may be very difficult to stay over there for long. "Are there plans to change your citizenship once again, after you've used America to obtain your education?" Ask God. He's running the show. Seriously. I didn't obtain citizenship on my own accord. I'm being driven. I'm being lead. What I am is by the grace of God. And I'm thankful He was able to change my heart to the point where I could make that oath without any mental reservation. I'm thankful to God for *providing* me with citizenship. I'm glad you feel strongly about citizenship, but I'm more thankful of being a Christian than of race, nationality, culture, age, everything. Christ is everything to me. And I don't think I'm going to be punished on the day of Judgement or reprimanded for feeling this way. Pastor Dave, according to the wisdom given to you, am I in any scriptural error by having this resolve? posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 10.06.08 (8:55 pm) Reply to: PastorDave Ac 22:25-27, 29 And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned? When the centurion heard that, he went and told the chief captain, saying, Take heed what thou doest: for this man is a Roman. Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea. Then straightway they departed from him which should have examined him: and the chief captain also was afraid, after he knew that he was a Roman, and because he had bound him.f 29. f. examined him: or, tortured him Ac 23:27 This man was taken of the Jews, and should have been killed of them: then came I with an army, and rescued him, having understood that he was a Roman. There's also Phil. 3:3-9 posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 10.06.08 (9:02 pm) Reply to: PastorDave I also hope you didn't misunderstand what I said about my past, about not wanted to be a US citizen. If I took an oath, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to do it. Of course I wanted to do it and of course now it doesn't matter where I am so I don't mind not leaving, it's that my motives for doing so and for wanting to be a citizen are for missions. And for the Gospel. And so what if they're different from your own? Don't I have free speech rights as much as you do enough to speak freely as much as you do? posted by: PastorDave (reply) post date: 10.27.08 (12:08 pm) Hey Isaac, it's been a while since I've interacted with you about this particular blog. I want you to know I have no argument with you about your theology or the sincerity of your faith. I appreciate how outspoken you are, and believe you truly love our Lord. For myself, I could use a good dose of your zeal! With my particular reading of this post, I feel like you were downplaying the significance and value of being an American citizen. I'm not interested in a person abusing the opportunity of citizenship solely for selfish reasons, and that was what I was sensing at the time. However, with further communication and with time to think about it, I guess it is possible for your to treasure the obtaining of American citizenship and still make the point you are making. If you think America is a great place - however imperfect, if you value and treasure being an American citizen, if you are willing to die for your country, then I welcome you as a fellow American. I hope your studies go well. And, please, continue to faithfully write your blog. I think it is an important part of this community. |
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