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posted by: Dave (reply) post date: 04.18.07 (9:13 am) What a stupid article. At least show Scripture as to WHY dating is not Biblical. Only blind (and stupid) sheep would believe this man...or anyone that does not use Scripture (in context mind you)to back such a bold statement up. Please don't follow someone who simply "takes authority" on a matter without Scripture (in context) to back it up. Paul's view is a matter of insecurity and control. And for the record I have been married for 11 years and had an awesome God Honoring dating relationship with my wife before, and still after our marriage. posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 04.18.07 (6:30 pm) Go to Sermon Index dot net and click on Audio, then on Paul Washer's name. posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 04.18.07 (6:30 pm) Please, listen to Paul Washer's preaching style - judge him not on a poorly transcripted (on my part) excerpt of his original sermon, but on his fruit as a preacher. This were quotes taken out of context - he actually does back up what he says, and the teaching on Biblical Courtship is from Joshua Harris, I believe. Don't say that he preaches out of insecurity and control until you've heard the full counsel of his preaching - I've heard many of his sermons and have tested the fruit (Matt. 7:16,20) to be of a man, faithful and experienced preacher, whos heart is to see many souls won to Christ, and the Christians he preaches so hard to presented to Christ a chaste virgin on the Day. Please, the Word says let what is good to the use of edifying that ministers grace to its hearers proceed from our mouths (Ephesians 4:29). posted by: Ann (reply) post date: 04.19.07 (7:04 am) I have heard the original sermon, and it was very legalistic and not based on Scripture in context. No where does Scripture say that dating is a sin. I believe courtship is an excellent path to follow--but that does not make it right to call dating unbiblical, demonic, or sinful. Washer's teaching on courtship is nothing like Joshua Harris', who is not legalistic about it. Listen to Harris' sermon "Courtship Shmourtship", available at covlife.org, and notice the difference. The latter is God-centered and encouraging, while the former has a tone that is negative and legalistic. Certainly we should look at fruit--but that's the second time this week I've heard someone respond to a charge that someone is preaching something false with "look at his fruit!" I'm not questioning Washer's fruit--but I am concerned with that attitude. I know people who follow Kenneth Copeland who have a heart to see souls won to Christ, and Oneness Pentecostals, who deny the Trinity, preach repentance and seek to encourage Christians live holy lives! But that does not negate their false teaching. It is a dangerous thing to imagine that anyone's fruit means we can neglect to examine the Scriptures to make sure what is taught is true. Paul praised the Bereans for searching the Scriptures to make sure that what he taught was true, not for examining his fruit. Again, I am not questioning Washer's fruit by any means, but I am concerned about taking that attitude towards any teacher. posted by: NewCovenantMennoniteFellowship.org (reply) post date: 05.10.07 (6:23 pm) Paul Washer is speaking to a group of young men who know the scriptures and know what God intends for marriage. He does not need to quote Scripture to prove that modern dating practices involve activities that God designed for a husband and wife. ---- Daniel Spenrath NewCovenantMennoniteFellowship.org A unique pietist anabaptist holiness cell church community in Austin, Texas. posted by: Matt Luneau (reply) post date: 06.07.07 (3:04 pm) Dating has been around for only about 100 yrs. Look at America today and our concept of dating. Look what we have become! We are set up to fail and turn to divorce as the statistics show, and it comes from the worldly action of dating. The moment a few things go wrong the relationship is over and on to the next woman or man to repeat the same thing. If you can not see this I am sorry that this worldly view has more influence on you than God's word. Some of you say that it is not Biblical to be against dating and that may be because you yourself are dating or for whatever reason, but where does it say in His word to test the waters? Or to date just to date? How about someone show me where holding hands or kissing was created for anyone but husband and wife (because dating will result in that)? And not only that but how about creating ties (Spiritual, emotional and physical)? You cannot tell me that ties are not created in the act of dating, ties that are meant for only husband and wife. Dating is taking on the benifits meant for marriage without the responsibility. Oh, and be careful on what you say about Paul Washer. I'm sorry but I have yet to meet a man more humble and God fearing man than him. I do believe he is God's anointed. Just be careful. In Christ, Matt posted by: Mandi (reply) post date: 08.06.07 (5:35 pm) I have been blessed by Paul Washer's teachings and not just the one on dating. I can attest to his reliance on the scripture and his passion for presenting Biblical truth alone, and for the glory of God. To accuse him of false teaching is a very serious accusation indeed (consider the Biblical consequences of false teaching), and should be thoughtfully and prayerfully considered. I have heard no heresy or false teaching from this man, ever. posted by: darwin godwin (reply) post date: 08.13.07 (7:25 am) my pee pee is BAD! So BAD in fact that I must build an entire chapter of theology around it! posted by: matt (reply) post date: 08.23.07 (3:04 pm) and we will be praying for you darwin godwin posted by: Max Cosme (reply) post date: 10.02.07 (7:34 am) dating is in not wrong!!! when u are pure in your dating and u love God and you realize that a relationship is for God NOT MAN!!! in my relationships i have been careful to remain pure! and God loves and honors my relationships when i do. all im saying is that when u take an unpure man and an unpure woman and put them together in a dating experiance then things can, and will, turn out wrong!!! when u make the bed for anything but marraige is when uv turned datin wrong! its when a man "touches" a woman (1 Corinthians 7:1) when the relationship becomes sinful! The Greek word for touch translates in "the fires of passion", in this context. So when a man touches a woman that ignites the fires of passion he has done wrong and has sinned! There is a line between godly-dating and sinful-dating. In Christ, Max posted by: Sarah (reply) post date: 12.24.07 (6:53 am) Dave and Max, dating is selfish. You lead a person on emotionally and then if it doesn't 'work out,' "oh well!" Give me one bible verse that supports dating. posted by: JP (reply) post date: 01.31.08 (4:31 pm) If people had listen to Paul Washers teaching, he address's the "where in the bible does it say recreational dating is a sin?" crowd by saying that the concept is so far removed from biblical thought and practice that it isnt even addressed. posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 02.09.08 (11:58 am) Reply to: Dave & Anne This is for you, Dave and Anne. Please reply or comment on what you think. Paul Washer's scripture for his answer is Heb. 13:4 - Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but fornicators and adulterers God will judge. Recreational Dating - Though dating within itself is not inherently good or evil (Matt 15:17-20) - recreational dating or singles having a dating relationship with someone just for fun can be reasoned from scripture to be a sinful practice. A friend of mine who is married reasoned that since it’s a good, undefiled thing from scripture for him to have recreational sex with his wife, then recreational dating must be a good thing, too. But, for the single man who dates outside of the constraints of being married to the one he is dating, this isn’t very wise, because it's out of its context. The motive of the heart then is to date for recreational purposes, not with the intention of marrying them or testing the spirits to see if you’re called to marry. Instead, it has a lustful intention behind it. Pre-marital dating would be acceptable biblically. The motivational pursuit of heart should always be for marriage – boyfriends and girlfriends and a dating relationship is already found nowhere in the bible, and having them just for the sake of having them or having fun socially – how can you justify doing that to honor God? It not only dishonors the spouse God will provide in His call, but it dishonors God – you treat His holiness and purity that He’s given you in Jesus wrongly, and you defraud the person you are dating (1 Thess. 4:6). Also, we can’t take fire into our lap and not burn our clothes, as the proverb says in Proverbs 6:27. We can’t date someone with worldly motives in our hearts and a worldly pursuit and expect to keep ourselves morally and spiritually pure. One reason in 1 Cor. 7:2, 9 that Paul gives for marriage is for that reason – we’re to marry to avoid fornication or lack of self control. This doesn’t mean that God is leading us to marry someone primarily for our sexual release (though His provision in this regard is a part of marriage), because marriage relative to us is about serving the other person, panning out the roles of Christ and the church. So, recreational dating is dangerous and can be a sinful practice, but pre-marital dating is God honoring and a good, godly endeavor. Now, back to Hebrews 13:4, "Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but fornicators and adulterers God will judge." It gives two extremes - one is marriage. The other is the area outside of the context of marriage. This not only means fornication or "whoremongering" which are before marriage but adultery which is during marriage. Your spouse is God's provision for you for marital intimacy, a.k.a. sexual intercourse. Taking not only the act of sex but the desires, thoughts, and emotions associated with it outside of the context of that covenantal marital relationship that God has honored is to bring judgment upon oneself. So, marriage is God-honored, but outside of it, it brings judgment. And the reason it brings judgment is because it transgresses the 7th commandment, you shall not commit adultery (see Matthew 5:27-28 also). So, the reason why recreational dating would be considered sinful in nature is because of the motive of the heart. The single man dating his sister in Christ just for the fun of it is taking those marital emotions and feelings that are supposed to be consummated on the marriage bed and putting them in a recreational dating relationship outside of marriage. The distinction would be pre-marital dating. This is seeing that person and courting that person with the intention in heart of marrying that person. Since the context, though he is single, is in the pursuit of marrying that person and marriage, and his attentions are towards honoring God in that pursuit, it is an honorable thing. I'm not imposing a legalistic law on dating and marriage but of the distinction of what's pleasing to God and what is sinning against God. But, if you can date someone for fun or recreation without the sexual attraction associated with it thus making it okay, I marvel. If you can see someone without the carnal desire or sexual appetites or of their attractiveness and do that in faith, it wouldn't transgress the law (which is black and white) it would then be a thing pleasing to God. But, 1 Thessalonians 4:6 says that no one should defraud our sibling in Christ, leading them on into thinking those emotional thoughts and feelings intended for two people who will marry, which also isn't right. The motives towards that person should be clear and your intentions clear and the relationship defined, doing it in faith while not defrauding or deceiving that person on your motivation and intentions for seeing that person. Since the motive isn’t a transgression of God’s law because of the clean and sanctified motive of heart that it isn’t sinful, it is okay, as only as it is a work done in faith – that it really is okay with God. Romans 14:17 says that the kingdom of God isn’t in ‘meat,’ or legalistic and rigidly imposing laws on what to do and what not to do on every little thing but in righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. If it’s a good thing it is a good thing, but the person doing it, with these clean motives, has to do it in faith that it isn’t out of his carnality and isn’t a sinful thing that he “does behind God’s back for his own pleasure” so to speak. Romans 14:22-23, Paul says, “Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.” Paul says in 1 Cor. 6:12 that all things are lawful for him but not all things are profitable, or expedient or helpful. Dating might be an allowed practice that isn’t a sinful practice if you do it with the right motive, but it isn’t a profitable or wise practice. Even though you don’t think your motives are unclean or are pure, what do we know?! We don’t know our own hearts many times and the heart is wickedly deceptive and barely knowable (Jeremiah 17:9). What might have started out friendly and clean could quickly turn into something carnal or sexual. Even in public it can become something sensual and fleshly very quickly that leads the both of you astray and sexual temptations to ensue for the both of you. You would not only have defrauded your date into thinking it would have been a clean or fun thing, but have caused them to stumble. Recreational dating, then, is “making provision for the flesh” (Romans 13:14). Also, for example, what if the spouse-to-be that God is really calling you to marry sees you dating that person and reconsiders how they think about you? It would then be detrimental to the godly marriage you would have had and lead to jealousy or mistrust carried into the marriage. So recreational dating even with a good motive is an unprofitable, unwise practice. All of those emotions and feelings developed are there for a good reason and are the basic ingredients that lead to two being cleaved to each other by God in an honorable relationship. You abstain from carnality and lust so that you can present her to yourself “not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing” but “holy and without blemish” just like Christ and the church (Ephesians 5:27). It’s okay to test the spirits whether they are of God, but dating is dangerous. Exercise the maturing discerning of knowing what's right from wrong (Heb. 5:14). So Paul Washer was right. posted by: Isaac (reply) post date: 02.09.08 (12:12 pm) Reply to: Max, you don't need to even have touched the dating partner to have had sinned. Jesus even said 'whosoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart' in Matthew 5:27-28. Even the strongest of Christians can stumble (Prov. 7:26) when they're tempted. To tell you the truth, I can't date someone and not have sensual regards towards that person in dating them. I couldn't do it in faith. And so I don't date. I can trust that God will lead me to my spouse and marital partner regardless. Matthew 6:33, "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these shall be added unto you." Phil. 4:19, "But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus." He'll provide me a wife in due season (Gal 6:9). Searching for her or attempting to find out who that is is just unwise and may be harmful to my relationship with God, because I'd have to divert my attention and affections away from Him in order to do it. But God even asks for our affections (Col. 3:2). Also, the bible says to the *single* man not to seek a wife point-blank. "Art thou bound unto a wife? Seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? Seek not a wife." It says not to go searching, so I don't date. But, it says in Proverbs 18:22, "Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the Lord." There's a big distinctive difference between finding a wife and searching for one. For example, I can ask the Lord for money to get a bite to eat for $3.50 believing Matt. 6:33 and walk to the store and on my way I find $3.50 laying on the ground. It doesn't belong to anyone looking around and so I "found" the $3.50 I needed and I say, "Thanks, Lord!" That's a lot different from going out and searching the sidewalks for $3.50. posted by: Helrvsen (reply) post date: 03.15.08 (3:17 am) for which he is likely to sell them. Half an ounce of silver at Canton in crop are those of excessive drought or excessive rain. But as posted by: darwin godwin (reply) post date: 04.01.08 (8:39 am) you poor people... (go kiss someone) posted by: darwin godwin (reply) post date: 04.01.08 (8:41 am) no - really.... you're parents kissed (and maybe even other people! ) Close down your theology and look at the world God created for you! posted by: darwin godwin (reply) post date: 04.01.08 (8:44 am) ...what... "the world is worldy" I suggest you point your all-knowing theological perpindiculars over to Google and look up G-N-O-S-T-I-C-I-S-M posted by: The Hound of Heaven (reply) post date: 04.27.08 (8:55 am) Where is scripture does it say dating is wrong? I don't recall any courting stories either. I am just saying. Dating or courting, it doesn't matter. Paul says if you burn, just get married. period. 1 Corinthains 7:8-10 "8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband." posted by: Chanceli (reply) post date: 05.24.08 (10:01 pm) Hi Just giving my support to Paul on this one.......... I grew up in Africa in a lovely and peaceful country... We all over there know dating is sinful, we all know premarital sex what is were most of thses dating go is sinful so I am just surprise when a debate is open n this and people find reason to support their ways but I am not surprised because its common, people twist the word of GOD around to make it fit in their desire, in their ways, they don't try to fit their lifes in the Word but try to fit the Word in their life. I was blown out of my mind when my first Pastor in US asked me if I have a girlfriend and I said no and he said I sould find one because it is good to have someone. It is the same hing with homosexuality, Where I grew up is was death to even talk about it but here people twist the Word and try to find out arguments to justify this. I don't just know what to say about all this and if someone says we are being dumb or primitive or even idiot if we see things that way then I would say I wanna remain dumb and idiot all my life........................ posted by: Jennifer (reply) post date: 07.05.08 (5:56 am) Chanceli, Thank you for your comments. I have to say as an american that these are words we need to hear. Americans do twist the Word of God to suit their desires. In all things we should seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness.. then all these other issues fall into place. I consider living in the US a detriment to my faith because of all the "voices" that speak out. It is like trying to pull a camel through the eye of a needle... only by the grace of God will I be with Him in eternity... After all there is only one way to God and that path is very narrow... and we americans don't like narrow paths. |
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